One such round during Jordan and the Bulls heyday produced one of the best smack-talk stories and making the tale even better, Jordan, for once, was on the receiving end. Photo: Cory Holland/Clarity NW for Realogics Sothebys International Realty; Inset: Michael Kovac/Getty, Cory Holland/Clarity NW for Realogics Sothebys International Realty, From Longtime to Listed! The clubhouse design sets the tone for classic golf and an authentic Lake Martin experience. The Great Migration was a large exodus of more than 6 million African Americans from the rural South to the cities of the North, West, and Midwest from about 1916 to 1970. How Rahm stopped negative momentum Friday, Wells Fargo: Rory back; Rahm, Schef skipping, Homeless rapper cards ace in first KFT round. Roger Holliday If you shot 101, you won all the money. Bill Russell is saying goodbye to his Washington home after nearly 50 years. Rachael Leigh Cook Lists Storybook L.A. Home for $4.3M a Year After Divorce See Inside. Russell Diehl 1291 W Lynx Way Chandler, AZ We were out in the middle of the golf course; they had just won the championship. All Sports Baseball Basketball Football Golf Hockey Non When Russell had surgery to replace a valve in his heart, he was on the golf course just about every day. Think about it this way, Russell responded. Mr. Bens grandson, Ben Russell carries forward the vision and recently dedicated over 1,500 acres on 12 miles of shoreline to The Heritage in honor of his family legacy. Coores and Crenshaws respect and love for the land mirrors that of Russell Lands, said Tom Lamberth, Russell Lands President and CEO. Today, golf course communities can be found across the state. Simmons retired after 36 years as a general superintendent for the Department of Defense, a job that took me all over the world, he said. Theirs is an architectural firm based upon the shared philosophy that traditional, strategic golf is the most rewarding, and the creation of courses that present this concept with the greatest artistry is the ultimate goal. https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2021/08/21/nba-boston-celtics-russell-sells-house/, Iconic Celtics center Bill Russell selling his longtime home on Washington's Mercer Island, Celtics announce Kevin Garnett's jersey to be retired on March 13, 2022, Woj: Robert Williams III agrees to 4-year, $54 million contract extension with Celtics, Celtics Lab 62: Making sense of Boston's cap situation, and what it can tell us about the future, The Celtics have retired 23 jersey numbers (and one name) - these are the players so honored. Russell Crossroads consists of the Discovery Center, Catherines Market, SpringHouse, The Stables and Kowaliga Restaurant. Harry Styles' Former Los Angeles Mansion Listed for $8 Million by a 'Selling Sunset' Star See Inside! READ MORE, A Beginner's Guide to Real Estate Investing. I was a Barksdale fan but later I used to go watch Bill and the Celtics play when the San Francisco Warriors played at the Cow Palace in San Francisco, and then at the Oakland Arena when the Warriors started playing there in (the mid-1960s), Simmons said. He says, You know were going to go after your record. I said, Which one? In an old interview, the Celtics legend praised His Airness before recalling the smack talk that occurred on the golf course: I think he is a great player and I have the ultimate regard for him. Dr. Russell received the 2017 Gwinnett Chamber's Citizen of the Year Award. Reese Witherspoon's Former Malibu Compound Hits the Market for $8 Million See Inside! He has also served as the Chairman of the Boardof Directors for the Gwinnett Chamber of Commerce. Betty White's Beloved Brentwood, Calif. Home of More Than 50 Years Sells for $10.6 Million. Hed call me to say what golf course to meet him at. endobj
For Jordan, thats 10 scoring titles to Russells zero and 10 All-NBA First Team honors to Russells three. I immediately put them in the garage, said Russell, who didnt retrieve them for years, until after he had hung up his basketball shoes. WebThe legendary Bill Russell was the centerpiece of the Celtics dynasty, winning 11 NBA championships during his 13-year career from 1956 to 1969. On March 31st, Russell Lands announced the construction of a Coore & Crenshaw golf course, the defining centerpiece for Lake Martins newest luxury residential development, The Heritage. But the quality of golf displayed by those early foursomes, Russell admitted, werent exactly pretty. Russell Lands owns, manages and develops commercial and residential real estate on Lake Martin. They had the second pick in the 1956 draft. Early Years Speaking with GolfChannel.coms Rex Hoggard in 2014, just months after undergoing open-heart surgery, Russell explained how he got started in golf. He was born on February 12, 1934, in Monroe, Louisiana, and later died on July 31, 2022, at the age of 88. (Originally published in the Sacramento Observer). Being born on 12 February 1934, Bill Russell is 89 years old as of todays date 26th April 2023. He has raised over 20 million in charity auctions throughout the Southeast / Midwest as an auctioneer during the past 35 years. Bill Russell is saying goodbye to his Washington home after nearly 50 years. Boston Celtics legend Bill Russell is one of the players in the same tier as Jordan, thanks in large part to his record 11 championships. Bill Coore began his professional design and construction career under the guidance of Pete Dye and Associates. During winter, while the golf courses in the northeast are empty, except for the loitering Canadian Geese, hackers can golf 12-months a year in the beautiful Arizona sunshine. So, the Russell family ended up in Oakland. 256.397.1004. It hasnt been much loss, though. He said, Why not? Because he would be up in the stands. Not only will folks be able to enjoy being at the lake with family and friends, they will soon be able to play a round of golf, too, Alabama Governor Kay Ivey said. Bill Russell had to return to school. 6 is a momentous honor reserved for one of the greatest champions to ever play the game., Bills actions on and off the court throughout the course of his life helped to shape generations of players for the better and for that, we are forever grateful, Tremaglio said. In 1987, Dr. W.E. It wasnt until 1922 that the first golf community was established in San Marcos. And its not just golf courses that Arizona is known for. The new 18-hole golf course features unique holes designed to the natural contours, elevations and elements of the lake and land, designed to be challenging to the seasoned golfer while still fun for the casual player. Golf Channel, All Rights Reserved. the name of the listing IDX Brokers. Coore & Crenshaw have designed some of the worlds most celebrated courses including Kapalua Plantation Course, Sand Hills Golf Club, Friars Head, Cabot Cliffs and most recently, Bally Bandon Sheep Ranch. WebBorn in Augusta, Georgia, two blocks from the Augusta National Golf Club, Bill developed an early passion for the game and pursued golf design, graduating with a degree in Architecture from Clemson University. African American Golfers Digest, Willie Simmons Jr. remembers NBA legend Bill Russell, their lives on-and-off the golf course. Remembering Bill Russell: His golf roots; Since its inception, Russell Lands has become a timeless destination and tradition for residents of Alabama and neighboring Georgia, many of whom visit year after year to enjoy the pristine waters of Lake Martin and reconnect with friends and family. and The two Hall of Famers also have five MVP Awards to display on their respective trophy shelves. Over the years, Bill has been honored. Our golf fans will appreciate the top-of-the-line work, and I am glad to see this project adding to our already beloved Lake Martin. The company is founded on the achievements of its namesake Benjamin Mr. After the operation, it took months for Russell to get back to playing. %PDF-1.7
Groundbreaking for the golf course is underway. He is 2.08 m tall and weighs 98 kg. Roughly 3,000 miles away, around age 9 or 10, Walton is just discovering the beauty of basketball. Admiration and respect for the classic golf courses of the Golden Age of Architecture inspired Ben Crenshaw and Bill Coore to establish the firm of Coore and Crenshaw Inc. in 1985. Since its inception, Russell Lands has become a timeless destination and tradition for residents of Alabama and neighboring Georgia, many of whom visit year after year to enjoy the pristine waters of Lake Martin and reconnect with friends and family. There are two golf courses at Leisure World and a number of additional recreational activities for those who want something beyond golf. 1 0 obj
Its not just blistery winters that make golfing difficult elsewhere. Tallapoosa County in my lifetime, stated Steve Robinson, Tallapoosa County Commissioner. But one day on the golf course, Russell also went head-to-head with MJ in talking smack. Red Auerbach, the Celtics coach, really wanted Bill because he could rebound and play defense. ', Russell continued, saying, You know, we won 11, but we won eight straight. Bill Russell died Sunday at age 88 from age-related causes. ENGLISH; Home. By signing up, you agree to the The Heritage lakefront real estate is planned for market availability in 2022. Editors@AfricanAmericanGolfersDigest.com, @2022 - All Right Reserved. Other spaces in the house include a media room and a recreation room. It was either his first or second All-Star Game he couldnt remember and he and the other competitors were gifted sets of golf clubs. I didnt even know that all that time., For The Record: Champion and mentor, Bill Russell. Dr. Russell holds a Ph.D. in agricultural chemistry from Ohio State University and has anextensive 20-year background in landscape pesticide research. Russell Lands name is no stranger to the world of recreational sports. He says, You know were going to go after your record. I said, Which one? You know, we won 11, but we won eight straight. Simmons was 12 while Russell, who recently passed away, was about four years younger than the man who would be his friend for life. The NBA Hall of Famer, considered by many to be the sports greatest player (and certainly big man) of all-time, is best known for winning 11 championships in 13 seasons with the Boston Celtics, including eight straight from 1959 to 1966. Bill Russell recently sat down for an interview with Golf Channel (see above) which was really cool because he's Bill Russell and he plays a ton of golf. t+I &5:OvT^GuO3Ri"D\Hz0uM'qsND;RM]^0dlHT#VM)rb>Az^Ms''amEW. Estimated completion is early 2023. After the operation, it took months for Russell to get back to playing. any purpose other than to identify prospective properties consumers may be interested in purchasing. Hear from the designers Bill Coore & Ben Crenshaw, Ben Russell, and the project team in the video. And like Mr. Ben, Coore and Crenshaw see things that none of the rest of us can see. Terms of Service Three Guys Golf | Bill Russell on Feherty One of the smartest things Feherty decided to do was not limit his show to strictly golf personalities. Either way, golf has been in Arizona for a long, long time. Many golf communities are also active, age restrictive retirement developments that offer their members many recreational activities beyond golf alone. The Russells first drifted to Detroit before landing in Oakland, Simmons said. Bill Russell is an 11-time NBA champion, and 12-time All-Star and is perhaps the game's greatest champion. Russell Lands Every day the phone rang my wife would say, Your friend is calling again, Simmons said. CELEBRATE GRADUATE SUCCESS WITH WISHMILL! Russell averaged 20.7 points and 20.3 rebounds in his three-year varsity career. Players will have an experience thats unique to Alabama, added Bill Coore. Others say The Phoenix Country Club was the first when it was founded in 1899. I was fortunate to land a job with Robert Trent Jones Sr. in his European Office. Leisure World is age restricted for those 45 and older. Legendary Boston Celtics big man Bill Russell is evidently selling his longtime home on Mercer Island in Washingtons Puget Sound, per a recent article by the Russell Lands constructed the Lake Martin Amphitheater, a venue for celebrating culture and the creative arts. But our relationship goes further back to West Monroe. And, if you haven't already, be sure to register for a free account so that you can receive email alerts whenever new Golf Course Community listings become available. 3 0 obj
He wasnt good on the hardwood, either. His four rebounding titles eclipsed Jordans zero, while his 11 rings were more than Jordans six. We see this as a huge win for our community, said Buffy Colvin, President of the City Council of Alexander City. Dr. Russell also serves as President and CEO of Fundraisers Group Inc., an auction/fundraising company. stream
Simmons eventually would move to Sacramento after graduation. Russell bought a home on Mercer Island where he lives to this day. When he finally bought himself a left-handed set, Russell scratched his competitive itch in matches against friends. Russell Lands owns, manages and develops commercial and residential real estate, primarily along 41,000 acres of pristine water and 880 miles of shoreline on Alabamas famed Lake Martin. Tallapoosa County in my lifetime, stated Steve Robinson, Tallapoosa County Commissioner. Bill Russell, a Pro Basketball Hall of Famer, Boston Celtics legend, and icon of American sports, has died at the age of 88. As a lake lover myself, I am thrilled to see the addition of a premier golf course to anchor this neighborhood here at Lake Martin. Our approach honors the Russell legacy to the area to love and preserve the land, which became the driving factor in the golf course design.. Every player in Boston Celtics history who wore No. When Russells mother Katie Russell passed away in 1946, his father William took her back to West Monroe for burial. Picturesque Lake Martin dominates the vistas throughout the back nine. This new Russell Lands development is the most exciting thing that has happened in. When a fire destroyed most of his hometown in 1902, the successful businessman helped the city rebuild a hospital, hotel, school and other vital infrastructure to support the community. 11, Boston reportedly works out a pair of 2023 NBA draft prospects, The only untouchable player on the Boston Celtics' roster during the 2023 NBA offseason? Each hole is memorable, accentuated by indigenous hardwoods, Alabamas long leaf pines, bridges and creeks. He also was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2011. See Inside the Homes Stars Are Selling After Living There for Many Years, David Ortiz Lists Miami Mansion for $12.5 Million, Mark Wahlberg Sells Los Angeles Mansion at a Multi-Million Dollar Discount After Leaving California. '$K[@Yn)=W ]Z(Y8 @CnrWd obYXHH?J$! %
You'll now receive the top Celtics Wire stories each day directly in your inbox. Later on, Russell played in several pro-ams, including the PGA Tour's annual stop at Pebble Beach, and occasionally with avid golfer Michael Jordan. It was no coincidence that local golf enthusiast Willie Simmons Jr. and his childhood friend and National Basketball Association legend Bill Russell would end up living in Oakland in the 1940s. In 2015, I interviewed Brown at his Los Angeles home, and he recalled the summer of 1968, when Russell lived with him in L.A., as their collective activism roiled and grew. They told her he went to Oakland. Many golfing communities are moving beyond the single recreational pursuit of golf. But the quality of golf displayed by those early foursomes, Russell admitted, werent exactly pretty. But one day on the golf When he finally bought himself a left-handed set, Russell scratched his competitive itch in matches against friends. The iconic NBA champion and civil rights pioneer will be the first player to have his number retired across the NBA. One thing people always said about Mr. Ben was that he was close to the land, said Ben Russell, Chairman of the Board of Russell Lands. Houses for Sale in Arizona Golf Course Communities, Hidden Palms At Westbrook Village Replat 2Nd Amd. If you are thinking of moving to a golf community, it would be wise to hire an experienced real estate agent who knows the local landscape. The state also has the best golf lifestyle communities in America. All-time great. He was a center for the Boston Celtics from 1956 to 1969. Even Wall Streets Goldman Sachs allows their employees to come to work tieless. These include tennis, swimming, and a 10,000 sq. They have blended their personal experience and admiration for the classical courses of Ross, MacKenzie, Macdonald, Maxwell, and Tillinghast to create a style uniquely their own. The house includes four bedrooms, two bathrooms, and two half-baths, boasting a suite that features a fireplace and private deck overlooking the tree-lined landscape. appealing to a broader and younger generation. Before I get into the interview I have one small nitpick about the show. Russell told the Journal of his longtime home, "[I] left behind my trophy case and an autographed ball for the next owner, and I hope they enjoy the home as much as I have over the last almost 50 years.". endobj
Never miss a story sign up for PEOPLE's free daily newsletter to stay up-to-date on the best of what PEOPLE has to offer, from juicy celebrity news to compelling human interest stories. Coach LEO (Quincy Leonard) of LEO Golf Academy National Links Trust Names Damian Cosby, PGA, New Al B. Quarles, II, Ed. }yK8/7-%o'?NOsz<4xyYl64LYj_w 9x4drO(en#uEcl1H/J (|7CGpHga28,Pn
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/N-gr2>==~/Q,9\/=di0VCe~Gnc=1>r:)SXY + J@I:@?>V@?>?WlU/vkg"g=Z[8\b Publisher Players will remember the dramatic variety between the holes and the unforgettable destination of Russell Lands on Lake Martin. After he was hired to coach in Sacramento, the Hall of Famer found out Simmons was a season-ticket holder of the Kings. It was either his first or second All-Star Game he couldnt remember and he and the other competitors were gifted sets of golf clubs. It was established in the mid-1500s and remains one of the most famous golf courses in the world. Simmons said Russell was nearly a Celtics teammate of Donald Barksdale, the first Black player chosen to play in the NBA All-Star Game and the first Black athlete to make the Olympic basketball team in 1948. So, I got the clubs out and they were right-handed. "I was offered the head coaching job with the Sonics in 1974. Join our mailing list to get the inside scoop. Over time, the creation of Lake Martin in 1926 and further development led to the establishment of Russell Lands in 1962, along with a tradition of promoting conservation and thoughtful use of Lake Martins natural resources. Jayson Tatum, PHOTOS: Images captured from the Boston Celtics' 2022-23 season Media Day, Your California Privacy Rights/Privacy Policy. Our families went to the same church and we went to the same school.. Lower down on the monetary scale is Leisure World where home prices begin in the low $100,000s. Russells expertise includes experience as regional director for a Fortune 100 firm and researching many of the nations most prestigious golf courses and resorts, including 6', Brooke Shields Sells Longtime L.A. Home She Once Rented to Ben Affleck & Jennifer Garner for $7.4M. Savannah Guthrie Lists Stunning NYC Family Condo for $7 Million See Inside! The only golf course he didnt take me to was the Del Paso Country Club. When Bill was living here hed call me just about every day. WebRussell Lands Announces Golf Course Designed by Famed Architect Bill Coore and Golf Legend Ben Crenshaw Centerpiece for Lake Martins Newest Luxury Residential I have left behind my trophy case and an autographed ball for the next owner, and I hope they enjoy the home as much as I have over the last almost 50 years, related the Celtics icon. Dog the Bounty Hunter Sells Colorado Home for $1.6 Million See Inside! Alabama continues to be a great place to live, work and play.. Russell Lands selected Coore & Crenshaw, one of golfs most respected architectural teams, due to their signature approach of honoring the land in their designs. Bill was a serious man, said Brown, who at that time had been retired for three years, and was himself a serious man, in the extreme. 2023 Having this new development in our city limits will fuel growth for our city and the entire region, said Alexander City Mayor, Woody Baird. Hear from the designers Bill Coore & Ben Crenshaw, Ben Russell, and the project team in the video below. The community has six Jack Nicholson Signature golf courses as well as just about every amenity you can think of including a state-of-the-art fitness center, swimming pools and tennis courts. We were out in the middle of the golf course; they had just won the championship. We provide state of the art homes for clients looking for Golf Course homes. Simmons honoring Russell is truly a testament to the millions of Black people who participated in the Great Migrations, seeking better opportunities, better conditions and better way of life, he said. Jordan and Russells careers are forever linked by their ultimate success on the court. Theres some dispute as to which golf course was the first in Arizona, but the consensus appears to be the Turquoise Golf Course, which was founded in 1908. The new 18-hole golf course features unique holes designed to the natural contours, elevations and elements of the lake and land, designed to be challenging to the seasoned golfer while still fun for the casual player. But the rest of them, you name it, we played there.. The NBA legend, 87, has listed his $2.6 million home on Washington's Mercer The new Russell Lands golf course will be a showcase of the areas natural beauty and a first in the region. Poncho Villa was known to rode through the golf course and his pursuer, General Blackjack Pershing, had camped nearby. >_]TDtf^Dx4UH\:gA'wt[?E? E.O.E /M/H/F/V. Later on, Russell played in several pro-ams, including the PGA Tour's annual stop at Pebble Beach, and occasionally with avid golfer Michael Jordan. One such round during Jordan and the Bulls heyday produced one of the best smack-talk stories and making the tale even better, Jordan, for once, was on the receiving end. Golf Course. The Coore & Crenshaw golf course is adjacent to Russell Forest on a site naturally conducive to golf along the Lake Martin shoreline and is the defining element in The Heritage master plan. Brokerage firms other than Arizona Network Realty are marked with
If there were 12 teams, you [Jordan] wouldnt win a championship. One thing people always said about Mr. Ben was that he was close to the land, said Ben Russell, Chairman of the Board of Russell Lands. This respect and love of the land is mirrored by Russell Lands. Mr. Bens grandson, Ben Russell carries forward the vision and recently dedicated over 1,500 acres on 12 miles of shoreline to The Heritage in honor of his family legacy. Groundbreaking for the golf course is underway. 2 0 obj
Yes, Ive known Bill all of his life. As every dedicated golfer knows, the first golf course was St. Andrews in Scotland. Russell Lands name is no stranger to the world of recreational sports. It hasnt been much loss, though. Coore & Crenshaw have designed some of the worlds most celebrated courses including Kapalua Plantation Course, Sand Hills Golf Club, Friars Head, Cabot Cliffs and most recently, Bally Bandon Sheep Ranch. <>
If you would like more information on any of these Arizona Golf Course Community homes for sale, just click the "Request More Information" button when viewing the details of that property. This new Russell Lands development is the most exciting thing that has happened in. It wasnt until after his playing career ended, though, that he took up golf. Sign up for our newsletter and get every update delivered to your inbox! There is also a new 54 par championship golf course for all to enjoy. Russell Lands portfolio spans beyond fine lakefront neighborhoods such as The Ridge and The Willows, including Willow Point Golf & Country Club and Russell Crossroads, a mixed-used development and the central town hub of Russell Lands 25,000 acres of land holdings. Ms. Russell had asked where did my father (Willie Simmons Sr.) go. Desert Mountain is a members-owned golf community for those with deep pockets. Of course, each of them has his own dominant category. He retired in 1969 and was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame six years later. Nobody could play, he said. Hawk (a term Black people use to refer to cold weather) rushed through there and got to Mr. Russell, Simmons said. All-time great. Part of a transformative master plan for Russell Lands, the golf course is the first in the state of Alabama designed by famed architect, Bill Coore, and golf legend Ben Crenshaw. Players will have an experience thats unique to Alabama, added Bill Coore. endobj
When a fire destroyed most of his hometown in 1902, the successful businessman helped the city rebuild a hospital, hotel, school and other vital infrastructure to support the community. Golf Hockey Non Sport Racing Soccer Gaming Wrestling Multi Sport. The data relating to real estate for sale on this web site comes in part from the Internet Data Exchange Program. My heart wasnt too friendly about that, he said. I didnt even know that all that time., For The Record: Champion and mentor, Bill Russell. Please check your email for a confirmation. Players will remember the dramatic variety between the holes and the unforgettable destination of Russell Lands on Lake Martin. By the time he retired, the league had expanded to 12. As Russell once told it: I think he is a great player and I have the ultimate regard for him. Alabama continues to be a great place to live, work and play.. Bill Walton couldnt see Russell but knew the Celtics center must be unique.. (Harry How If you shot 101, you won all the money. During the design process, we wanted to draw out the beauty of the natural environment by providing an atmosphere that showcases the lake and the hills in the heart of Alabama, said Ben Crenshaw. If there is one thing that Arizona is known for - besides the Grand Canyon, that is - its golf. I never was that good anyway.. Career Before Russells NBA rookie year, Russell was the caption of the U.S. national basketball team that went to the 1956 Summer Olympics. Ben Russell (1876 1941), whose love of the land and visionary investments put Alexander City, AL, on the map more than 100 years ago. His death was announced in a statement on social media. Included below are Golf Course Community homes for sale throughout Arizona. Bill Russells unparalleled success on the court and pioneering civil rights activism deserve to be honored in a unique and historic way, NBA Commissioner Adam Silver said. We were born a block and a half from each other. Kirstie Alley's Estate Lists Late Star's $6 Million Florida Home That She Bought from Lisa Marie Presley. When I took the job, I was a single parent and chose Mercer Island because it had the best schools in the Pacific Northwest, shared Russell to Payne via email. His impact on the game was so profound that the NBA Finals MVP trophy is named in his honor. Russell, a civil rights icon who won 11 NBA championships with the Boston Celtics, died at age 88 on July 31. The games appeal seems to be less popular among the younger Millennial generation, however. Boston Celtics legend Bill Russell is one of the players in the same tier as Jordan, thanks in large part to his record 11 championships. Washington Golf. Bill Russell. Russell played center for the Boston Celtics of the National Basketball Association (NBA) from 1956 to 1969. A five-time NBA Most Valuable Player and a twelve-time All-Star, he was the centerpiece of the Celtics dynasty, winning eleven NBA championships during his thirteen-year career. Russell Lands selected Coore & Crenshaw, one of golfs most respected architectural teams, due to their signature approach of honoring the land in their designs. There are over 300 golf courses in Arizona and about 100 golf communities where a golf course is located within the community or where residents have access to a course nearby. Bill Russell (L) greets Jimmy Butler at the NBA All-Star Game 2018 at Staples Center on February 18, 2018 in Los Angeles, California. However, Bill had his areas of strength too. Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn's Son Wyatt Russell Sells Vibrant 1930s Spanish Home for Nearly $2.9M. )q_L}l$EM ASo]/L3%;O?&%#Vvmd^_m{KR9Br:s>]wH?&oaLy78B,o~Fkdn]`MUur9,l. Russells 11 rings are unmatched to this day, but there is a logical argument to knock it. I never was that good anyway..
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